Mspec lesbian and he/him lesbian

If there are any spelling mistakes in this, please do tell me! I talked with different lesbians and WLW people while writing this as i wanted their approval on writing this, and they were supportive of the purpose of this whole essay, which was trying to understand as well as explain. They received drafts and early access, and everything went through them, with one WLW person basically being my co-writer in a sense. And please again, no slandering any of these things on here! This is supposed to be educational, after all, and looking through the lense of learning more about why some might find comfort in these. I do allow calm discussion, but please no attacking others and insults and such. If something other than calm discussion occours, then those comments will probably eventually be deleted as to not start more fights or have anyone else coming to start anything. If you have any suggestions for further topics, feel free to leave them in the comments!

ADD-ON

I found a term that could be used instead of this that is much less controversal and seems more liked, kind of almost like a middle ground between those pro and anti this stuff; bi/pan sapphic or mspec sapphic. I'm not really sure how to rewrite this chapter now to include this, so instead i am just going to put this add on here at the start of the chapter.

BI/PAN LESBIAN AND MSPEC LESBIAN – SOME WAYS A PERSON MIGHT WANT TO USE IT.

Now before we get into this, let me put down short what one definition of lesbian is: it is a queer attraction towards women, and can be used by anyone EXCEPT binary men.

Now with bi/pan lesbian and mspec lesbian and such, it actually touches on something i have mentioned before. So far, i have settled on two explainations and descriptions for this one that are the most common ones.

Let us start with the first: that some use it as a way to differentiate their romantic and sexual attraction.

Now there are numerous reasons why someone could identify as an mspec lesbian. One of the most common is that someone may use the Split Attraction Model (SAM). Now i forgot to mention this in the last chapter, so apologies for that, but i learned about what it was recently, so i guess we are all learning!

Now the SAM is a system that separates different forms of attraction. For example, my partner is asexual and panromantic, so they would be someone who's using the SAM. Me as well, to a degree. This can work the same way with non asexual/aromantic individuals. They may use bisexual and homoromantic to explain their attraction, so with bi/pan lesbian (and in that case, also mspec vincian), it would be kinda be like that.

So to explain with another example; A person (in this scenario, a woman) can be sexually attracted to the same gender, but still have felt romantic attraction towards a number of genders including the opposite. That isn't uncommon. In this case, such a person would potentially be bi/panromantic homosexual, aka a bi/pan lesbian. Now let's change it up. Let's say... a man is romantically attracted to other men, but have felt sexual attraction towards women in some cases. In that case, they would likely be homoromantic bisexual, aka a bi vincian. See what i mean? It can be used as a more specific or more comfortable way to describe their attraction.

Everything is not just black and white. Sometimes, a person isn't just gay, straight, bi, pan, etc etc. Sometimes it is a bit more complex. Heck, some people might feel their identity is so complex that they themselves are not sure of what it might be. Some people might feel there isn't an identity or term that best describes them, while some others might feel no need to label themselves. There all labels for all those, for those who might wish to use them. Either way, what is important is that they are comfortable. It is their identity. Sometimes people might feel a combination of labels describe them better.

Like there exist people who are homoromantic heterosexual.

THE OTHER ONE.

Another reason someone may identify as a lesbian is because they primarily experience attraction to women, or feel a disconnect from their connection to other genders. it may be easier to explain their attraction based on their strong connection to feminine attraction rather than just saying their mspec and leaving a core party of their identity out. There are many other reasons someone may identify as an mspec lesbian, such as being attracted to non-lesbian non-binaries, and using lesbian as an umbrella term etc.

An example: someone (in this case a woman) is attracted to women, but also is attracted to feminine non-binary people and neutral non-binary people and want to specify that attraction in some way.

Now i know what some of you might be thinking: "But Michael, isn't there already a term for that?"

Well yes, there is! And it is called neptunic, with uranic being the masculine equivelant (which i use sometimes alongside with vincian for myself!).

Now, any gender can identify as neptunic, though is mostly used by people under the non-binary umbrella (same for uranic). Now it is also possible for a lesbian to identify as both neptunic and lesbian, and might use them interchangibly in some cases, or at the same time in others. After all, neptunic can be described as the attraction to all people except men and man aligned and/or masculine aligned non-binary people. Maybe they feel the most comfortable identifying as that, and that is valid. If someone feels comfortable with that, they should have the right to use it.

Now onto another label, one which i also identify with the feminine equivelant of: Nomasexual.

Nomasexual is the attraction to all genders except binary men. It was made with non-binary people in mind, but any binary person can use it.

So in theory, a person identifying as lesbian could also identify as nomasexual (or nomaromantic) as well.

HE/HIM LESBIANS.

The definition from a LGBTQ+ wiki:

A he/him lesbian or hesbian refers to a lesbian who uses he/him pronouns but is still a woman, woman-aligned, or non-aligned. It is a more specific form of pronoun non-conformity and crosspronoun usage. A he/him lesbian does not identify as male because pronouns do not always equal gender, however, the pronouns one uses are another part of gender expression, just like one's clothes or behavior. In the same way some non-binary people are more comfortable using pronouns other than they/them, some binary people may feel more comfortable using pronouns other than the one's typically associated with their gender.

Now from what i understood, there was another reason too. In fact, it was what i was told when i first learned about he/him lesbians. They have existed for a while. I found this article on the history of it, so i will be copying and pasting it here, as well as putting the original link. So... here we go.

https://radiantbutch.medium.com/why-you-should-respect-he-him-lesbians-85dca31a5b4f

"Why You Should Respect He/Him Lesbians

Butch identity in context of lesbian culture has existed for a long time. The historic working-class lesbian community — and the iconic lesbian bar scene — included all modern sapphic identities. Although these spaces have dwindled since, a diverse butch community still remains. Back in the 1950s, 60s, and beyond, lesbian spaces had almost no men around. this created a separate world of people and relationships, giving way to an entirely new system of "gender," of the ways they related to one another. Butches were those who took on a more masculine role. People who said that this dynamic "mimicked heterosexuality" were simply comparing butches to men, which couldn't be farther from the truth!

Butch masculinity was — and still is — a unique kind of masculinity. In other words, it was something entirely new and had no static rules!

Equating butches to men is dangerous for butches and other masculine sapphic people. Not only that, but the conflation itself creates even more confusion surrounding the very simple ideas that i'll be breaking down in a minute. When people say things like "why would a lesbian wanna be with someone who's basically a man?" it enables real life violence towards butches. men will justify harming us due to our masculinity and feminine lesbians will justify rejecting us. we end up completely alone in the world.

So, it's the 50s, and being gay is basically seen as a form of gender non-conformity. Why? Well, you're a woman, so you're supposed to conform to the expectations of womanhood. Lesbians didn't do that, and we didn't want to do that, so we made spaces where we didn't have to.

sub·vert /səbˈvərt/

(verb )

to undermine the power and authority of an established system or institution.

Since existing as a lesbian already challenges the traditional expectations of womanhood, a lot of lesbians found empowerment and freedom in further undermining the system of mainstream gender, its constructs, and its general power and authority over society.

Butches, who already felt masculine in a way much different from manhood, embraced this. Gender subversion became a staple of butch identity and culture. They presented masculine, as non-men. It felt powerful because it was undermining the exact gender system that oppressed them.

This subversion of gender gave rise to:

•using different pronouns, including he/him, they/them, zie/hir, and more.

•dressing in traditionally masculine ways.

•being called masculine terms like "boyfriend," "husband," and "dad."

•taking testosterone to present more masculine.

•getting top surgery.

All of this was going on and butches weren't weren't men. In fact, butches do all of these things today and still aren't men. it's a matter of gender presentation, an intentional subversion of the established mainstream system of gender. But how does this affect gender identity?

As you can imagine, many butches began to consider "Butch" their gender identity. Their entire experience of gender was being butch. Don't believe me? Here is a story from the neighbor of a older butch named Mary talking about this exact phenomenon:

That comment is on my historically cited article about how bar scene butch identity was a precursor to modern non-binary lesbianism. It goes into many examples and also explains the formation of non-binary terminology in the mid-1990s.

The truth is, lesbianism has always been a haven for free gender expression. The way butch identity normalized gender subversion opened a door. Now all lesbians of today, regardless of whether or not they identify as butch, can express themselves and identify however they want.

This genuine detachment from traditional womanhood, a feeling that still exists for many lesbians today, means that some of us don't even identify as women in the traditional sense anymore.

And, like I said, this is not unique to butches. Even femmes of the bar scene subverted expectations of femininity, reinventing it for the gaze of people other than men. It challenged gender expectations. "Femme" & "butch" are deeply historical identities within lesbian culture.

Saying that lesbians can't subvert gender by using alternative pronouns, presenting in unique ways, and identifying with gender labels other than woman, isn't just wrong. It completely opposes everything about lesbian history. We've been subverting gender from the very start!

Lesbian bar culture was a safe space for butches to exist as masculine without any correlation to manhood. We were seen and understood by other lesbians. We expressed ourselves however we wanted, and so did the femmes, and so did the many lesbians who didn't identify as either.

However, these spaces weren't entirely secure. There were laws as early as the 1940s known as the "three article rule." They made wearing less than a certain number of gender-conforming clothing illegal. You could be arrested. you could be assaulted. You could even be killed. When modern refuters and gatekeepers say butches only existed for "safety purposes," it's erasure. If butches were comfortable being femme, they would've been. Maybe they had to pass as men in front of cops, but they weren't men, and they risked their lives to exist as butch. To say that butches of today or, by extension, that any other lesbians can't express themselves in a way that's comfortable is spitting in the face of every butch and femme, of every lesbian, that survived the police raids and discrimination and violence in order to freely exist.

You are not "protecting lesbians" by invalidating those of us who are connecting with this deeply ingrained part of our history. It's okay if you don't feel the need to subvert gender in the ways we do, but you don't get to tell us what is and isn't allowed, and history agrees.

Butches — and all other lesbians — are free to do what we want regarding gender identity & expression. If you aren't going to read the history to try and understand that, then at least show some respect by not telling us we're "fake" or a threat...

...because you're wrong."

Honestly, i feel that article itself is all i need to add. It explains things better than i ever could.

Edit: My dear friend pointed out that some AFAB genderfluid people who are attracted to women might identify as a he/him or they/them lesbian on days they feel male, non-binary, etc. Not all, of course, but some still might. Hope i explained that right!

AND ON THAT NOTE...

Non-binary lesbians and vincians are valid too. Let them use whatever label makes them the most comfortable. Many NB lesbians are usually woman-alligned or feminine-alligned (of course not all are though), or AFAB, and might feel the most comfortable using the term lesbian. Same with NB vincians except man-alligned or masculine-alligned and such.

There are terms specifically for NB loving women/men, but we need to keep in mind that some might not feel comfortable using those labels for themselves, and we should not force them to.

Now i found this in the article as well when i was researching on he/him lesbians, and i wanted to share:

Writing this honestly made me think; would i, by definition, technically be mspec vincian? Answer is, i don't know.

So remember folks, attraction and identities can be complicated as hell, and pronouns do not equal gender.

-Sincerely, a feminine/androgynous trigender dude who although uses he/they pronouns, and prefers masculine terms, actually identifies the most with three identities under the non-binary umbrella (agender, non-binary, and boyflux).